Elias Scultori, MCC (00:03):
Welcome to PRIME SPACE, a PRIME Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Scultori.
(00:14):
So hello coaches. Today I have a guest and you know how much I love bringing guests to our podcast here. I have the pleasure to have a conversation here with Dorisse Shakir-Ullah. She is an ACC coach and very, very, there is a uniqueness about Dorisse that I wanted to bring to the conversation here. And I think that you're going to notice this as the conversation develops here. But before I go on, let me just say hello, Dorisse.
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (00:54):
Hi. How are you today?
Elias Scultori, MCC (00:56):
I am joyful to have you here with us. How are you?
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (01:02):
I'm doing well, thank you. I'm very blessed and want to say thank you for the opportunity, Elias, I really appreciate this.
Elias Scultori, MCC (01:10):
I remember I've met you before and I and listeners, I met Dorisse through ICF New Jersey. Dorisse is a member of the ICF New Jersey. She now has a board position at ICF New Jersey. She's the co-director of member engagement and very active with ICF New Jersey. And I remember meeting Dorisse many years ago when I was still living in New Jersey, but recently I did a workshop for ICF New Jersey and here's Dorisse. And I remember having a conversation and seeing her smile and I said, I need to have a conversation with Dorisse because there is a lot behind that smile that I think that needs to shine in this world and we need to learn about. So thank you so much for being here.
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (02:05):
Oh, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. And hi to everyone out there.
Elias Scultori, MCC (02:11):
So Dorisse, as I said, is an ACC coach and one thing that I think is very beautiful about her background is that she was the first black Muslim woman to serve as an administrative officer in hiring manager in the top pan FBI field office. That is a big deal. Dorisse, what is that about?
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (02:38):
I don't even know what is that about? Yeah, that was a very quiet kept secret. Yeah. I was in charge of the professional staff with the FBI, Newark, New Jersey field office. That was my office for 41 years before I retired in 22. And I have to tell you, I started as a typist in the FBI and realized shortly after a year that I wanted to do more. I just didn't know what more meant. And I started really looking at different ways that I could not only continue to grow but continue to be a service because that's what I'm about when you get to know me. And so that's what I did. I worked my way through different positions until leadership called me. And that was a conscious choice because I felt people needed a voice and opportunities and I wanted to be a part of that. There was a mentor that I had, Marjorie Meki, who really had a big impact on my life, on how I set about going strategically through career choices and also how coming from a small town in Jersey City born and raised never left the two blocks that I lived on. I learned to grow and I grew a lot, not only in the FBI, but I grew a lot based on the mentors that I had in my life.
Elias Scultori, MCC (04:28):
And it's beautiful to hear that story because then, and I hope that throughout this conversation that we are going to have here that we are going to notice, and I hope listeners that you are going to notice what Dorisse just said, this life of service and the commitment that she has with her clients today and the mission that she has. And also I love this concept of the mentors, the people that you had that supported you to move forward and now you are being the mentors and the coaches and the role models to other individuals coming in front of you. The other thing that I want to mention is that the Dorisse is also a recipient of the leading Women in Business Award from NJ Biz. This was an award that came last year, so congratulations there, Dorisse. That is a testimonial testimony of the work that you are doing for the community and all that you're bringing to your clients as well. Thank you.
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (05:34):
Yes. Well, thank you very much. I always said that my favorite quote, and you'll hear me quote often is by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Who said, what are you doing for others? That was his most urgent and persistent question and that has always been a north star for me, not only in the government, but once I retired, I wanted to continue that. And so once I decided I'm going to leave the bureau, I sat home for about a week and thought, okay, I need to do something to continue to serve and what could I do? And I wanted to give back. So that is what helped me become the founder of Career Forward Coaching in order to do a lot with helping people find their strengths, find their values, find their personal brand, because that is what sustains us. When things get tough, you have your spirituality, but you also need to understand who you are at the core because that's what got me through a lot of tough times in my work, professional life and personal. My faith always will come first.
Elias Scultori, MCC (07:08):
Appreciate that. One thing that is coming up for me is I have this conversation with you here and prior to us hitting the recording button is how much you are grounded in a mission, how much you're grounded in the why you are a coach, that the coaching for you is not simply another creating a business and getting clients, but all of this that you do is for service. That is so beautiful and I want to emphasize that and put the spotlight there because how important it is for us to know our using Simon Sinek here to know our why and to know why am I doing this, why am I here in coaching? What brings me to this and remind ourselves because I think that sometimes as we continue to develop our careers and sometimes even with very experienced coaches, we forget or we lose touch of these foundational points of what is coaching about. And it's beautiful to see that you have this very evident and present in the way you coach and you work with your clients. Thank you for that. I want to emphasize here one thing about your story Dorisse, because you are primarily the title that you use is career coaching, but in what I love about that is that you approach career coaching through the view of personal branding and the idea of who are you first, let's look at who you are as an individual so that you are able to then apply that and decide what steps you want to take in your career. The other aspect that I love here, the other two aspects that I love here is that you work a lot with veterans and the government and there is one aspect, and I think that we discussed this a little bit prior to recording the episode, is that you see that somehow members of the BIPOC community are attractive to working with you. And let me explain here, first of all, Dorisse, what is BIPOC?
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (09:37):
Great. It is black, indigenous people of color.
Elias Scultori, MCC (09:44):
Thank you. Because a lot of people will not know what that is. So black, indigenous and people of color, that's what BIPOC means. So it seems that people from that in that space are attracted to work with you primarily. So I would love for you to share with us here a little bit about what do you see or are the needs that you see within this community that it would be helpful for every coach who happens to work with members of the BIPOC community? To keep in mind,
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (10:26):
That's really a good question is when I think of me coaching BIPOC community, first of all, I love that space because they do not always get the opportunity to get coaching. They do not have the same access to coaching. And that was one of the reasons why I started a lot with pro bono work, whether it was the Sierra House, which is a transition home for women, whether it was the enjoyable growth of, it's actually called epoch, enjoyable pain of growth. It was an academy that was online for high schoolers that were about to think about leadership and moving forward for college. And then the program with the Salvation Army really just helping youth development with access to coaching, not mentoring because they were receiving mentoring from the coaches of the basketball team, et cetera. But when it came to coaching, it was that question, who are you and how can you help your future? So say thank you down the road. You do that by getting to know who you are and being able to understand your strengths, understanding your values, understanding those things that in tough times you have your spirituality if you believe, but if not, you still have the insight that core of who you are. Because with the government, I found early that we could not wait until they were in college to recruit. We had to start talking to them first in high school and then it went to middle school because the drug test, the polygraph was part of your core, your code of ethics, your word, your bond. And they needed to understand that. So as we started coaching around personal branding, that was the question, what can you do to make your future? So say thank you, and that's where we started.
Elias Scultori, MCC (13:19):
Beautiful. I mentioned to you earlier as well, I'm teaching a course on diversity, equity, and inclusion within the space of coaching, and it's a course for coaches. And one of the things that we're addressing in the conversation with the class is this idea that we coach the individual and we honor the person as who they are individually. Every person is unique and we approach our clients in a unique manner. Every individual is unique and doesn't matter the boxes that they come with. However, on the other side is that we cannot deny that this person that shows up in front of us, they come influenced by those boxes. They come influenced by their contacts and the labels that society has given to them for anybody, any group. And that's why I have this series of culture and coaching because in the PRIME SPACE podcast, because I think it's important for us to understand context and how context influence that particular person in front of us. And the more we are aware of the influence of context, that that opens our listening to certain nuances of what that person is bringing, that if we don't apply the context, we will probably dismiss and miss important points of that particular individual. So one thing that you said earlier was this idea of the limiting of their own experience or the hope as well that might show up working with the BIPOC community. I would love if you could expand on this a little bit more for us to understand this a little better.
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (15:13):
Yeah, when we talked earlier, I talked about when I coach, even though they may be BIPOC, I will start out, they're still a human being, but experiences will shape us just like they've shaped me and just like they will shape anyone as a coach, I cannot just dismiss that at all. And I try to not only use empathy, but I try to understand how we could help them move beyond that and think about not limiting themselves because of circumstances. Opportunities don't have to be big. It's the momentum that you need. And so when I coach the BIPOC community, I look at first them as an individual and then we look at what makes that individual, how can I help them move forward, understanding that there will be circumstances that may cause them to feel a fear or a limiting belief that it cannot be done. And we work through that, right? Because the question is always going to be what would happen if it did work out, which is what I had told myself. If money was not an issue, what would you want out of this experience? And I try to help when I coach to come from that perspective because I know I grew up in Jersey City, born and raised, as I said, did not get to college to finish it. However, I still achieved being the first black Muslim American to be running a top 10 FBI field office. And that came through squashing the fears because I have them. I didn't always get the positions that I put in for, but I didn't say the game was rigged. I tried to strategically figure out ways that I could build and I try to bring that to my clients, intentional thinking strategically, being thoughtful about your career and not looking at things as boundaries, but expanding beyond that.
Elias Scultori, MCC (18:30):
That's so beautiful, this concept that there may be some challenges because of the context, because of the boxes, because of the labels. But you supporting the coach, the client into not giving up hope and not blaming here or there, but doing their work, keep working and finding other strategies in how to approach the situation regardless of the context. What is it? Who are you? Who do you want to be? What is your goal for yourself? And yes, we have a situation around, we have this context that we have to work, we work with, but let's work together towards that. And I so appreciate that you are not only a coach and perhaps this is why people are attracted to you and working with you, the risk because you are a role model. You did this, you made that work in your own life and your own career, and now you're helping others to do that. So unfortunately, we need to wrap up our conversation here. Theresa, you're going to come back for other episodes because there is, oh my gosh, just the little conversation that I had before the session, before the recording, and now in the recording I can see there is so much behind this beautiful smile and we want to bring here you back to the community. Doris, as final words, what would you like our listeners to remember if they are working with a client in the BIPOC community, what should they keep in mind
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (20:22):
To stay open to the individual that is either sitting before you or on the screen? We're always told about biases and making assumptions, but I say don't discount also what they may be going through. There may be other questions that you may have to ask in order to really truly understand what it's not a matter of, well, I didn't do it because I didn't do it. Explore. Be curious. Because there are times that the situation that they may be in didn't allow them the opportunity maybe to finish in assignment. They want to be seen. Sometimes they just want to be heard and listened to before we even get into the coaching piece. Because you want to have a relationship with that person, not just transactional. And I've always looked at coaching that way as well. I want to know what it is that I could do to get to know them better so that I understand where they're coming from. And it's not just let's hurry up and get to the goal because it's just not always that simple.
Elias Scultori, MCC (22:10):
Thank you. Thank you for that. So a reminder of respecting the individual, looking at the person as an individual, but not forgetting the context that comes together with that individual. Thank you so much, Dorisse, and as I said, I'm looking forward to our next conversation. Dorisse, thank you so much. Everyone, thank you so much for listening to the podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and share this episode with others. Visit our YouTube channel and subscribe to the YouTube channel as well. Lots of resources for you over there and I will see you next time. Take care.
Dorisse Shakir-Ullah, ACC (22:46):
Take care everyone. Thank you Elias. I appreciate it.
