Elias Scultori, MCC (00:03):
Welcome to PRIME SPACE, a Prime Coaching Academy podcast with your host, Elias Scultori.
(00:14):
So hello coaches. For the last episode of this season of PRIME SPACE, I invited my dear friend Amy Rupert Donovan to be here with us. Hello, Amy.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (00:32):
I'm back. Hello, Elias.
Elias Scultori, MCC (00:34):
So Amy, we always have these conversations when the recording button has not been pressed.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (00:42):
I know somebody should just follow us around with a recorder.
Elias Scultori, MCC (00:45):
Oh my gosh, yes.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (00:47):
Wait, maybe not. Okay,
Elias Scultori, MCC (00:49):
Maybe not. But anyways, for this podcast here today, for this episode, I thought for us to, the theme for us to discuss here in this conversation would be, it's a question actually. Can someone be a good coach without formal coach training? Where do you go? When I ask this question,
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (01:15):
I go in about 20 different directions when you ask this question. Me too. I have a friend who, he's a great friend and he's a great coach and he doesn't know the first thing about coaching and we've never talked about it, but I actually allow him to coach me every now and then I allow him, I don't know why I'm saying, but we have these conversations and he shows up as a great coach. Now he is a movie producer and director, so he's got some natural talents from that, from his profession, but he just has a way of being that is very coach-like and we enjoy having great discussions and things. However, and here's where the depends comes in. When people coach without formal training, they don't know what they don't know. And I'm sure there's plenty of really effective coaches out there who have hung a shingle and are coaching and are doing effective work for their clients who have respective backgrounds that inform that effectiveness that they have. However, my question is really, are they delivering the maximum amount of value that they could? An example, are they really just coaching results for the client versus for transformation? These are things we learn. These are things we learn from getting good solid frameworks in place, practice, practice, practice, practice, discussion with peers, discussion with mentors. All of these things help us know what we know and grow from there. Ilyas, you and I still have conversations with code. I get coached every now and then. I know you do. We go at it all the time stretching one another's understanding of coaching and practice coaching. So if people aren't engaged in that constant growing edge of being a coach and doing coaching, that's where it depends. That was a long answer.
Elias Scultori, MCC (03:41):
No, I appreciate that. And I agree with you. Many episodes ago I had, the theme of the episode was coaching fundamentalism and this whole aspect that all of the rules of coaching. And I shared in that episode that I try not to be a fundamentalist. I believe in the coaching process. I believe in the core competencies, not without any thought process behind, I believe in the core competencies because of the rigorous process that has been created around them for them to be created. And now the ICF is reviewing the competencies again to show the rigorous process that we have around them. So I believe because it's a proven process and also because I have seen it work, however, so I'm not a fundamentalist and the ICF is the only way, or these competencies is the only way a person can coach. However, I also, another episode of PRIME SPACE also, I talked about the distinction between what is coaching and what is the coach approach. So someone can have a natural ability to show up with the coach approach without even knowing that they are showing up. That way they can come and then they can simply be curious. They can ask questions, they can create a safe environment, they can give the other person space for reflection, and that can be tremendously impactful and resourceful. A person can come with lots of professional experience and have a hybrid approach between asking questions and showing up with a coach approach. And at the same time being more of a mentor, being more of a consultant. And that process can be tremendously beneficial and tremendously powerful. I know of coaches and professionals that have that approach and oh my gosh, they're doing tremendous and beautiful work there. So I am not fundamentalist in that aspect that you have to have coach training in order for you to be effective. And also depends on what the client needs. Some clients may need consultancies, some clients may need mentoring, and if we go as a consultant and as a mentor, that will be effective for the client. However, we do have a rigorous process as far as core competencies, as far as skills of a coach within the ICF environment.
(06:48):
We also have a rigorous process as far as coaching education. This morning I was just talking with coach educators from all around the world and the ICF was updating us in the process and the due process that they have around credentialing and accreditation and all of that. There is a thought process behind that. So to me, it's not that you cannot be an effective coach, but a person that does not have coach training or coach specific training from a very serious coach training program will miss on best practice will miss on specific tools that can be so effective. And what I see a lot happening in the marketplace of people that label themselves as coaches without coach training is that they end up reinventing the wheel. They create their own processes and instead of benefiting from a community of 60,000 members and gathering the knowledge from all of these individuals and all of these experiences there are summarized in the core competency and the skills that we deliver when we have a serious coach training program. So to me it's like, yeah, you can be effective, but I would bet that you would be even more effective if this person really invested in coaching education and invested not only in coaching education, but invested in being current to industry standards.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (08:25):
Yeah. Here's another point though. On the other side of the coin here, ias, is that one of the things we tell our students at Prime is the only thing you're an expert in is coaching once you leave this program. And that's true. We expertly learn how to facilitate the process of coaching. Our clients are the expert in themselves and we're specifically trained to work from those perspectives. Now, think about this for a minute. Would you go to an accountant that said, yeah, I'm good with numbers. Yeah, I'm good with numbers. So I say, I threw a sign out here and I'm doing people's numbers here. No, I wouldn't. And I don't think anybody with any common sense would do that. And yet in our profession, we by choice didn't make licensure happen and that was choice. I just really want to stress that early on in this field we collectively decided, no, we want to leave the doors open to let this thing evolve. However, because you're a good executive, because you're good with people, because that does not make you an expert in coaching. And it also means you don't know the quality you are providing for your clients. And so what are you committed to? What are you committed to? That's my question for people who don't get training. You and I as master certified coaches, we have to get 40 hours of training whether we like it or not, to keep renewing our master certified coach designation. There's a constant commitment to learning, which is one of the core things about being a coach is that we're on our own learning path, our own growth curve, and so that we give our clients a space to grow into being good at something else. Like my friend who I said, who's got a great coach approach in our, yeah, he can be coaching me when I give him that opportunity, but I can also see exactly what's missing because he doesn't have that professional training. So this is a question I have for people who have decided not to get the training. Why? Why are you not investing in yourself? Why aren't you not considering yourself a professional and doing what professionals do? Yeah, I know for some of you it's a hit to your pride. Maybe I've already paid my dues in certain fields. Well, I've paid my dues in coaching. Can I become a brain surgeon? No. This is what I'm asking here
Elias Scultori, MCC (11:28):
A hundred percent. And the other thing that comes up for me as I'm listening to you is without coach training, do we really know what coaching is or with the proposition of coaching? Because this is another thing that I see, people call themselves as coaches, but they are doing something else and they wholeheartedly believe that they understand what the standards of the profession, but they don't because they haven't had the training and then they think that they're doing coaching and then they are providing something else. We see this in many different fields.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (12:09):
Oh, we see it all the time. I'm sorry to cut you off, but I just have to say this. We see it all the time in students who choose to come in and get trained after they've been practicing for a while, they're blown away at what they didn't know. And including level two, when people move from level one training to level two training, they're going, whoa, I didn't even know I didn't know this. But here's where we really find out is when we coach clients who've been coached by people who are doing other things or watered down versions of coaching that say to us, what did you just do here? I've been coached before. I didn't have anything like that. I once had a guy I was coaching, there were a bunch of executives getting coached. I coached this guy and we buttoned it up in three months. I mean, he really went far. And he sent me an email. He said he was comparing notes with one of his colleagues and he told the guy his experience and the other guy said, I didn't get that at all. And then they started checking in with some of the other executives. I said, I didn't get that all at all either, but we went to a really deep place for him that was super transformative for him. And so this is the question people haven't had the training have to start asking themselves.
Elias Scultori, MCC (13:24):
And two more points that I want to make before we finish our conversation here today is one is the ethical issue as well. If we are going to call ourselves coaches, I think, and if we are going to represent ourselves to the public that we are coaches, I would think, at least for me, that would be imperative for me to know there is an industry here. What are the qualifications of this industry? What is the industry saying? What are the expectations that we have towards that particular practice? Regardless if you have to have license or you don't have license, I would think that ethically speaking, I would be curious to know best practices and follow industry standards. That's one point for me for us to keep in mind.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (14:24):
One last thing, some people who haven't gotten training might be making good money in their practices. They had solid networks from before, whatever it is, and some are struggling. Now, does coach training make you money? That's up to you. At the end of the day, you're an entrepreneur starting your own business. All coach training can do for you though is make you a really good and effective coach. But here's the question. If you haven't had coach training, if you're churning clients, you have a lot of attrition and they're turning over fast, two, three months, six months, whatever chances are you're not providing a space for your clients to grow into. You don't have enough expansion and flexibility in your abilities as a coach to keep the client engaged into their own growth. I have people sign up and I'm sure you do too. IUs and a lot of other coaches have people sign up for only a few months, say, okay, we'll get through this in a few months, and a year and a half later they're still with you because they didn't even realize they could grow to and stretch to that point. So this is another thing to keep in mind is client retention is directly related, I think, to the depth of the coach's skills and their abilities.
Elias Scultori, MCC (15:51):
One final point that I would like to make, which I mentioned before, is this idea of it's not just a question of getting coaching education, but make sure to have quality coaching education. That's very important as well. Make sure that the education that you get is first of all, at a minimum that that school is an accredited school with the ICF follows ICF standards, but also even with an accredited school. Make sure that you check with former students and what the students experience and what the students are saying so that you can really get a sense of the quality of the education that you have. Yes, you can be effective with your clients without coach training. I'm not sure if you are very clear about what coaching truly is and the power of coaching.
(16:52):
So I would encourage every listener here to get curious about the training and what it means. We would love to work with you as here at PRIME Coaching Academy, either at level one or level two or even have a conversation with you. So if you're curious about that, reach out and we would love to talk with you and see what is support you and what is the best path for you moving forward. Amy, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experience here with us. Everyone. We are going to take a short break with these episodes, and so this is the conclusion of season two. We are going to come back with season three in a few more weeks and we are excited about some new things that we are going to bring to our podcast. So stay tuned, continue to share these episodes with others and don't forget to subscribe. If you have not subscribed, check our YouTube. Oh my gosh, so much going on there in our YouTube channel, including coaching demonstrations, which is so important for the development of a coach. And enjoy the summer here for us in the Northern Hemisphere or wherever you are, and we will see you next time. Take care everybody.
Amy Ruppert Donovan, MCC (18:11):
Bye everyone.
